Bill Cooper -
I've read your recent interview (in the MUFON Journal) where you say
you don't believe in
MJ-12, so it made me wonder why you wanted this
Jacques Vallee - THE
INTERVIEW WAS DONE BEFORE I MET
JOHN LEAR, BUT I WILL GRANT YOU
THAT MY POSITION HASN'T CHANGED THAT MUCH. I BELIEVE THERE IS A
UFO PHENOMENON WHICH IS PHYSICAL IN THE USUAL SENSE, BUT IT CAN
MANIPULATE SPACE AND TIME IN WAYS I CERTAINLY DON'T UNDERSTAND;
PERHAPS THERE ARE PEOPLE AROUND WHO UNDERSTAND IT.
They do, but go on...
I FURTHER BELIEVE, AS DO YOU, THAT THE U.S. GOVERNMENT MUST HAVE
BEEN STUDYING IT FOR YEARS. THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT MJ-12 IS REAL.
THERE IS A HALL OF MIRRORS ONE ENTERS AS SOON AS THE INTELLIGENCE
COMMUNITY IS INVOLVED, AND WE'RE RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF IT. THEN I
TALKED TO LINDA HOE AND FRED BECKMAN, BOTH OF WHOM RECOMMENDED THAT
I LISTEN TO JOHN LEAR, WHO IS AN IMPRESSIVE FELLOW, AND HE SAID I
SHOULD TALK TO YOU, AND HERE I AM.
I became involved in the UFO question as a Naval Intelligence Man.
In the period of 1971-72 I was ordered to brief several high-level
officers about the contents of certain documents that were given to
me. Those briefings had to do with the fact that a number of UFOs
have been captured by the military and that their occupants have
been working along with our scientists. We have entered into a
treaty with them.
YOU ARE GOING A LITTLE TOO FAST FOR ME. FIRST OF ALL, WHAT WAS YOUR
POSITION IN THE NAVY?
I was under Admiral Clarey, as a member of the Intelligence briefing
WERE THE DOCUMENTS CLASSIFIED, AND AT WHAT LEVEL?
They were classified Top Secret/S.I.
WAS THERE A CODE WORD ATTACHED TO THEM?
MAJIC, with a "J", was the code word. I am sure they changed it now.
HOW LONG WAS THE BRIEFING, AND WHERE WAS IT GIVEN?
There were several briefings, all of which took place at the
Headquarters for Pacific Operations on the island of Hawaii. The
building overlooks Pearl Harbor. The first briefing was a
two-and-a-half-hour general overview, then there were periodic
updates as new information came to light.
WHY WERE THESE OFFICERS BEING BRIEFED?
Because in their operational capacity, they had and immediate need
to know. One, they might be required to recover some crashed disks
in the future. Two, the UFOs might be misconstrued as offensive
Soviet devices and fired upon, so they had to be aware of their
WERE THERE INSTANCES WHEN THE UFOS POSED A REAL THREAT?
During the Vietnam War a UFO shot down a B-52. There were also cases
when our troops were attacked by things they first thought were
helicopters. There was some speculation at the time that the
Russians must have entered the war on the North Vietnamese side, so
it became a pretty serious matter.
DID THE NAVY EVER PICK UP A DISK AFTER THAT?
There was an incident in which I was an actual witness, involving
the recovery of a craft that was later listed as a Soviet sub. I was
in the command center when it happened, and I can assure you it was
HAVE YOU YOURSELF EVER SEEN AN ALIEN?
HAVE YOU EVEN SEEN PART OF A CRASHED DISK?
No, but I know two different men who were assigned to guard crashed
disks and who have spoken to me.
HAVE YOU EVER SEEN UFOS YOURSELF?
Once, in the late summer of 1966, I was on watch on board a
submarine, the USS Tiru, SS-416, on the way to Seattle, and three of
us saw a disk as large as an aircraft carrier rising out of the sea
two and a half miles away on the port side. It rose and was lost in
the clouds, then it came back down again.
DID IT DISTURB THE OCEAN?
Not really, the water would glide around it, as if it was drawn by a
WERE THERE BRIEFINGS GIVEN TO HIGH-ECHELON OFFICERS BEFORE 1971?
There must have been, given the information in the documents. The
text stated that the first secret project was established at
Eisenhower's orders in 1953. Ike asked Rockefeller to help him in
setting up an organization that could conduct a study without
government agencies or Congress being aware of the situation.
Rockefeller established it under
the "Jasons", an elite intellectual
group. The task force was composed of twelve men, including
Kissinger, Dulles, Brzezinski,
George Bush, and eight others, who
became known as the
the MJ-12 under operation Majority.
WHERE DID THEY MEET?
At a place called the Country Club. This way they could mention it
openly without anyone knowing what they were talking about. It was a
piece of land in Maryland which Rockefeller had set aside for the
Jasons. It was only accessible through the air.
AND THE INFORMATION THAT WAS KEPT SECRET HAD TO DO WITH UFOS
With UFOs and with the Aliens. There are four types of aliens. There
are two kinds of "Grays", including one race, not commonly seen,
that has a large nose. Then there are the "Nordic" types, tall
blonde Aryans, and finally the "Orange" ones.
WHERE DO THEY COME FROM?
I remember seeing several points of origin mentioned: Orion, the
Pleiades, Betelgeuse, Barnard's star and Zeta Reticuli.
WE HAD A TREATY WITH THEM?
WHY WOULD THEY GO TO THE TROUBLE OF ENTERING INTO A TREATY WITH US,
SINCE THEIR TECHNOLOGY IS FAR AHEAD OF OURS? JOHN LEAR MENTIONED A
They needed the government to keep their presence secret. Remember,
we had one of the Aliens in our custody. Our radar affected their
navigation system and threw their craft off- balance.
HOW ARE THEIR SHIPS POWERED?
With a small nuclear reactor the size of a football. They use a
space-time fold. I'm not a physicist, so I don't understand that.
Apparently they have the ability to cloak themselves, to go
WHAT KIND OF METAL DO THEY USE?
In the early days it was pure magnesium. We couldn't duplicate it at
the time, but now we could duplicate it in space, that's why there
is so much interest in growing crystals in orbit. They use alloys
that we can create on Earth but not with the same pliable structure.
Do you know any of the astronauts? Ask any of the Apollo astronauts
about the moon. What they saw there. There is an Alien base on the
dark side of the moon.
WHAT HAPPENED TO THE ALIEN THAT WAS CAPTURED?
He died in 1952 after being ill for one year. The government tried
to save him. They broadcast messages into space, asking that his
people come and help. The result of that was the Holloman landing,
on April 25, 1964, when another Alien came to work with our
scientists. He gave us lots of information. The Aliens were
desperate to have their presence on Earth kept secret. We agreed to
that, in exchange for their technology. The Aliens were given
permission to conduct abductions. They said they needed to do them
on medical grounds. They were supposed to give MJ-12 the list of the
humans they abducted. Then we began to realize they lied to us.
WHERE ARE THE ALIENS NOW?
Area-51. Everybody thinks it is under control of the Air Force,
because it's at Nellis Air Force Base in Nevada. But in reality
Area-51 is under the Navy. The Navy has operational control of field
activities on this project. That also includes Area-2, which was
originally built as an underground storage area for the Atomic
WHAT ABOUT GROOM LAKE?
Groom Lake is at Nellis, same thing. There is an Alien Technical
Group at Nellis, and there is another one near Dulce, New Mexico, on
an Indian reservation.
HOW DO WE KNOW THAT'S TRUE?
That's what the documents stated. It turns out there is a large
magnetic anomaly where the base is. Perhaps ground-penetrating radar
would show what's inside, allegedly it is all honeycombed with
tunnels. The document explains how to get in, where the doors are.
IS IT GUARDED?
No, it's not guarded. That would only attract attention, they would
have to explain what it is. But once you go in, you never come out.
I can take you there if you want.
WHAT WERE THE TWO DOCUMENTS THAT YOU USED FOR THE BRIEFINGS? CAN YOU
The thickest one was a book, about three-quarters of an inch thick,
called "Grudge/Blue Book Report Number 13". People think Blue Book
was under the Air Force, but it wasn't. Blue Book was under Grudge,
which in turn was assigned to the Air Force to run. It had to do
with abductees and implants.
WHAT WAS THE OTHER DOCUMENT?
It was an outline on Operation Majority, which also covered Blue
HAS ANYONE ELSE SEEN THESE DOCUMENTS?
There is a man named Bill English who is in hiding near Albuquerque,
and who has seen the same things I did. He is afraid for his life.
They have already tried to kill him twice. The government blew up a
van in which he was riding with two other fellows. They died, and
he's lucky to have escaped. The only reason nothing happens to me is
that I talk to people, I disseminate all the information I have.
must realize that for a long time I kept it all inside, because I
thought it was in the interest of the country, and I had a high
sense of duty. I don't have that sense anymore. It's all wrong. Too
many people have been killed because of this. It's completely
illegal, and we have been betrayed by the Aliens. We live under
immense danger now.
HOW DID THIS OTHER MAN, BILL ENGLISH, GET TO SEE THE DOCUMENTS?
He was a captain in the U.S. Army, Special Forces. He was assigned
as an information analyst at a British base. The document came in
the regular pouch. He was not supposed to see it, it was an error in
routing. So he was kicked out. Attempts were made on his life. He
was ridiculed. Some people even said he was on LSD!
WHAT DID YOU THINK OF THE 'COVER-UP" DOCUMENTARY, RELEASED BY
It was part of the damned contingency plan, a deliberate attempt by
the government to confuse people. Perhaps I shouldn't say this, but
some of the participants are informers for the government.
WHAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF THE DOCUMENTARY, THEN?
To lead people away from the truth. All the Majestic-12 documents
that Moore has presented were obvious fakes. It was done to
discredit the people associated with that research. The whole thing
read like a chapter in his book about the Roswell crash, there was
nothing new in it. The pictures of Aliens were not right. And
Majestic-12 was not formed by Truman, as they implied.
DO YOU THINK IT IS EASY TO FOOL PEOPLE?
The truth is so incredible... Look at this magnificent ship. (They
were aboard the Queen Mary) Imagine the Queen Mary sailing past an
island where the population was still living in the Stone Age. What
would they say about it? That's our situation with respect to alien
PRECISELY. THE QUEEN MARY DOESN'T BOTHER TO ENTER INTO A TREATY WITH
THE KING OF EVERY LITTLE ISLAND. AGAIN, BILL, I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY
THE ALIENS WOULD NEED A FORMAL TREATY WITH US, IF THEY ARE SO
ADVANCED. IT SEEMS TO ME THEY WOULD JUST IGNORE US COMPLETELY.
They need to make sure the government would keep their existence
from the public.
I HAVE HEARD FROM JOHN, AND ALSO FROM
LINDA HOWE, THAT THE NAME OF
ALLEN HYNEK WAS MENTIONED IN REPORT-13?
Mentioned? He was the co-author of the damned thing!!!
completely involved in it, in the study of the abductions and the
implants. He even made the statement that one person in forty has
been abducted and has received an implant. Of course, many more
people have simply been abducted. The scary part is, what if the
people who are in the government have all been implanted already?
ALL I CAN TELL YOU IS THAT I KNEW
HYNEK VERY WELL, AND THAT WHAT YOU
SAY ABOUT HIM MAKES NO SENSE TO SOMEONE WHO KNEW THE MAN'S
And all I can tell you is what was in that document. Hynek's name
was on the cover, and inside there were pictures of the Holloman
landing, photos of Aliens, autopsy tables, and details of Project
Red-light, where we actually try to fly their craft, and
Snowbird, a cover for Red-light using conventional technology, and
so on. By the way, their craft don't crash when they are disabled,
they settle in the impact crater where the dirt has been pushed
THERE IS A CONTRADICTION HERE. BLUE BOOK, FROM WHAT I SAW, WAS
MOSTLY A PUBLIC RELATIONS PROJECT. THERE WAS NO FOLLOW-UP ON CASES,
IN FACT. HYNEK KEPT COMPLAINING ABOUT THAT.
There was no follow-up because they already knew what those things
were. But they still had to explain then to the public. One of the
documents said specifically that he cases they can't explain should
be referred to Philip Klass, who works in cahoots with the
intelligence community. You know, things are never what they seem to
WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE PURPOSE OF THE IMPLANTS?
Nobody knows. When an attempt is made to remove them, the person
WAIT A MINUTE. IF THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON SINCE 1953, MANY OF THE
IMPLANTED PEOPLE MUST ALREADY HAVE DIED OF PERFECTLY NATURAL CAUSES.
IT WOULD BE A SIMPLE MATTER TO REMOVE THE IMPLANT DURING THE AUTOPSY
AND STUDY IT. DON'T YOU THINK A PATHOLOGIST WOULD NOTICE IT AND BE
INTRIGUED ENOUGH TO TAKE IT APART?
BILL, IF WHAT YOU'RE TELLING ME CAN BE PROVEN, WE WILL HAVE TO
RECONSIDER EVERYTHING WE KNOW ABOUT THIS PROBLEM. I HAVE NO QUESTION
THAT YOU ARE TELLING ME WHAT YOU BELIEVE, AND IF YOU SAY YOU HAVE
SEEN THIS REPORT-13, I AM WILLING TO TRUST YOU. BUT THE FACT THAT
HYNEK'S NAME WAS ASSOCIATED WITH IT MAKES ME THINK THAT IT WAS A
I have seen the report myself and Hynek's name is on it.
SO WHAT DO YOU THINK SHOULD BE DONE NOW?
The information should be disseminated to the public, as widely as
DO YOU THINK THE PRESIDENT KNOWS?
Yes, Bush must know, as a former member of MJ-12. Previous
presidents were only told what THEY wanted them to know. The
President would have to blurt it out in the middle of a press
conference, before they were aware that he was going to say
Don't you see? If the information was released, the
intelligence community would collapse. Nobody would ever trust those
people again. As you know, Reagan classified everything about UFOs.
Nobody who does any work with the government can talk about the
subject, even if they do unclassified work.
YOU CAN'T POSSIBLY MEAN THAT! FOR ONE THING, IT WOULD VIOLATE THE
FIRST AMENDMENT. FOR ANOTHER, NO ONE WOULD OBEY SUCH AN ORDER. THE
GOVERNMENT HASN'T EVEN DEFINED WHAT A UFO IS! IT WOULD BE LIKE YOUR
ASKING ME TO KEEP SECRET WHAT WE HAD FOR DINNER TONIGHT, OR WHAT WE
SAID TO EACH OTHER. YOU COULD NEVER FORCE ME TO DO IT. I HAVEN'T
AGREED TO IT IN ADVANCE. FURTHERMORE THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO KNOW WHAT
WE HAD FOR DINNER TONIGHT, SO I COULDN'T KEEP IT A SECRET EVEN IF I
Reagan ordered that no one doing any kind of business with the U.S.
government must discuss UFOs.
LET'S TALK MORE ABOUT THE ALIENS. WHY ARE THEY COMING HERE IN THE
There is a document about
Project Aquarius that deals with the
history of the Aliens and their interaction with Homo sapiens for
the last twenty-five thousand years. This interaction culminated
with the Basque culture and the Assyrians. But Project Aquarius was
closed. Their planet has turned into a desert following a war they
had with another race. They have been devastated, they are in
evolutionary decline, their digestive system is atrophied. They come
here in search of new genetic material.
THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE!
The government believes it!
HOW LONG DO THE ALIENS LIVE?
They told us they lived four hundred and fifty years. The live Alien
who was left on Earth after Holloman was named Krill. He gave lots
of information, scientific data, some of which was
published in the
open scientific literature under the name O. H. Krill, after being
sanitized. Very advanced stuff. Krill is still alive. Their biology
is well-understood. They are air-breathing creatures like us,
although the heart is connected to their lungs as a single organ.
Their digestive system is atrophied. They are chlorophyll-based,
plant-like, if you will. They absorb nourishment through the skin,
and they excrete through the skin too.
WHAT ABOUT THEIR BRAINS?
They have two brains, separated by a bone partition, but going into
the same spinal cord.
DO YOU KNOW ANY DOCTOR WHO MIGHT HAVE ATTENDED THE ALIENS OR DONE AN
Look up the name Dr. Guillermo Mendoza. He nursed the one Alien who
died. He was a biologist, not an M.D. By the way, they did feed the
Alien ice cream, which he could eat in small quantities through a
membrane in his mouth, and he did like strawberry. And he was
partial to Tibetan music. That part of the Seligman "Cover-Up"
documentary was true.
HOW DO THEY COMMUNICATE?
Among themselves, they communicate telepathically. They use a
translation device with us. When they first came, they contacted our
scientists in binary code. You know, I'm not a religious man. But if
you look at the Bible, the Angels could be the Nordic types and the
Grays could well be the demonic ones. After all, the Bible talks
about a pact with the Devil in the last days, after Israel is
reinstated. Leading to Armageddon.
WHAT DID THE ALIENS HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT?
The information they gave us wasn't just scientific data. They
provided much on the occult side. They claimed that had a lot to do
with our religion. They spoke about witchcraft and cults on Earth.
SO WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT ALL THAT?
I am going to get the information out. I have resigned from my job.
To begin with, I'm organizing a symposium at Anaheim. The profits
will be used to build up a reward fund for those who want to come up
and reveal what they know. Then I'll take the symposium to all the